"IF THE FETUS YOU SAVE TURNS OUT TO BE
GAY, WILL YOU STILL SUPPORT ITS RIGHTS?"
Well, will you?
GAY, WILL YOU STILL SUPPORT ITS RIGHTS?"
Well, will you?
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Bumper sticker of the decade
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 69Wraiths |
Bumper sticker of the decade |
Lead | |
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Posts: 2803 (04/10/09 23:58:47) KNOWN TO BE 99.99% ACCURATE |
Each time you listen to right-wing radio, God kills a kitten. 
Please, think of the kittens |
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MorgaineA77 |
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Posts: 8034 (04/11/09 07:08:27) All-Star Blogger |
Hell, they won't even care if it gets food or medical care two days after it goes home.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- Mahatma Gandhi "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung |
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SuzieQ |
That Is a Good Thought | ||
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Posts: 4538 (04/11/09 09:52:09) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
but it is sarcasm geared toward radicals who would rather kill the human than let it live a life as a gay person. It is extreme to say the least. Most
people would not even consider doing such a thing and could care less if the person is gay or straight. The problem is that certain religious groups feel
that they do not think it is a lifestyle that they want to acknowledge and they have a right to that belief. They do not want to stop these folks from civil
marriages and having legal rights to each other under our law. The problem comes along when the gays want to force those groups to accept their lifestyle.
That is wrong and that is when the rest of us get sucked into this issue. In this country, everyone has the right to his own opinion and they should not be
forced to accept it if they do not want to.
There are radicals for and against homosexuality and abortion but these people are in the minority yet they are turning these issues into a no-win situation and making a mountain out of a molehill. The solution is simple. Let the Church and those who are against it, alone and let the people who are for it do as they please based on their own conscience. Both issues are personal in my opinion. |
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Naysayer |
SuzieQ | ||
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Posts: 3953 (04/11/09 11:42:19) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
"The problem is that certain religious groups feel that they do not think it is a lifestyle that they
want to acknowledge and they have a right to that belief."
Yes they do. However, you could have added this: The right to that belief ends when they attempt to deny someone else's rights based on those beliefs. "They do not want to stop these folks from civil marriages and having legal rights to each other under our law." Some of them most certainly do. How could you not know that? "The problem comes along when the gays want to force those groups to accept their lifestyle." Is it asking too much to be left alone to live a lifestyle of their own choosing so long as it does not infringe on the rights of anyone else? Is this not a free country? "That is wrong and that is when the rest of us get sucked into this issue." You seem to think gays want other people to live their lifestyle as opposed to simply accepting them for who they are. "In this country, everyone has the right to his own opinion and they should not be forced to accept it if they do not want to." Of course no one can force anyone to accept gays as equals even if it is the right thing to do, but perhaps you can tell us all why gays shouldn't be accepted as equals. |
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SuzieQ |
To Naysayer | ||
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Posts: 4540 (04/11/09 12:25:46) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
On your first point. It is a Church and they have the right to deny the gays from getting married in the Church if they so choose. Why are the gays trying to
force this group to accept something they do not believe in? It seems to me that they are intruding on their rights.
On the second point. Yes some of them do but as I said, they are the radical minority. Most people, left or right, would prefer that it be left to the individual to accept or deny. The third point I think I have made the same point. Yes they should be left alone but should also not force those who do not accept them to do so and that is what they do when they want to force the Church groups. On your fourth point, I never said that they want others to live their lifestyle. I do not think that anyone would want to live that lifestyle if they were given a choice. I never thought that the gays had a choice and it was just the way their were born. On your fifth point. I never said gays should not be our equal. I said let people deny or accept the gay lifestyle or the issue of abortion based on their own conscience. |
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MorgaineA77 |
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Posts: 8039 (04/11/09 12:42:37) All-Star Blogger |
On your first point. It is a Church and they have the right to deny the gays from getting married in the Church if they so choose. Why are the gays trying to force this group to accept something they do not believe in? It seems to me that they are intruding on their rights.What church are gays trying to force into performing gay marriage? Good grief, there are enough that do it voluntarily. The third point I think I have made the same point. Yes they should be left alone but should also not force those who do not accept them to do so and that is what they do when they want to force the Church groups.What church groups? I do know straights in churches who want gay marriage and clergy, but shouldn't those straights be allowed to have the kinds of churches that they want? "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- Mahatma Gandhi "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung |
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Naysayer |
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Posts: 3956 (04/11/09 15:22:12) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Suzie, I'm not arguing whether or not a Church has the right to not marry same sex couples. Clearly they do. What I'm saying is that nobody has the
right to deny people the right to live as they choose.
BTW...If the Pope deems homosexuality and same sex marriage to be contrary to the Bible and a violation of the tenets of Catholicism, so be it. But considering the number of Priests who engage in homosexuality, he should probably rethink that position. |
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SuzieQ |
To Nay | ||
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Posts: 4545 (04/11/09 16:45:17) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Why are we debating something we agree on?
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Mmoryr |
Gays looking for a church | ||
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Posts: 4977 (04/11/09 18:22:35) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Most UCC churches are opening and affirming. We just went through a pastoral search for the last two years. 3/4 of the applicants were gay.
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MorgaineA77 |
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Posts: 8045 (04/11/09 18:44:17) All-Star Blogger |
There are at least 3 Baptist Churches in this area that perform gay marriages.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- Mahatma Gandhi "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung |
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Pakaa2 |
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Posts: 3453 (04/11/09 18:58:44) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Wraiths, of course, the constitution guarantees the rights of all
citizens be they fetus, or adult. So as long as that right falls under the constitution, they should be entitled to it. Wouldn't you agree. |
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MorgaineA77 |
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Posts: 8048 (04/11/09 19:11:14) All-Star Blogger |
Paaka: Wraiths, of course, the constitution guarantees the rights of all "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- Mahatma Gandhi "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung
Last Edited By: MorgaineA77
04/11/09 19:17:59.
Edited 2 times.
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Mmoryr |
Wow | ||
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Posts: 4983 (04/11/09 19:40:03) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
MorgaineA77 wrote: |
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Shaul El Sage |
Mmoryr | ||
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Posts: 4550 (04/11/09 20:11:32) All-Star Blogger |
On another thread I taught how at conception life is formed. A baby a child, a human being.
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Pakaa2 |
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Posts: 3454 (04/11/09 20:22:43) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Irma wrote:
Well, except that the Constitution doesn't say that fetuses are citizens. And in fact, if women were considered citizens at the time, it didn't even guarantee all rights to all citizens. Rights for women had to be added with a special amendment. Since there has been no such amendment for fetuses (who are not even legally persons) you are wrong when you try to say that the Constitution provides all rights to fetuses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tell that to Wraiths, he the one that asked the question about fetuses turning out to be gay, and having rights. So I gather from you answer that you don't think a gay fetus has rights. Is that correct? Now lets deal with your example to back up your side of the discussion. Other than being denied the vote, what rights under the Constitution were women denied? Since women were denied the vote, which was corrected by an amendment does that mean that a citizen under the age of 18 (voting age) are not provided rights under the constitution? BTW, I never used the words, nor said that the Constitution provided "All" rights to a fetus. You again have tried to put words into my statements that was never said, proving once again you are being disingenuous. |
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Mmoryr |
Ahhhhhh but shaul | ||
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Posts: 4986 (04/11/09 20:23:10) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Where is it written what you say is true?
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Shaul El Sage |
Mmoryr | ||
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Posts: 4553 (04/11/09 20:49:14) All-Star Blogger |
In God's Word, the Bible. Now I ask you where is it written that life does not start at conception, that the conception has not produced life.
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Mmoryr |
Shaul when does life begin? | ||
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Posts: 4993 (04/11/09 23:01:17) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Does it begin at the time of conception or at the time of birth. This has caused debates forever and it will never be solved.
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MorgaineA77 |
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Posts: 8050 (04/12/09 07:04:09) All-Star Blogger |
:
Irma wrote1. No, Paaka, You are the one who erroneously claimed that fetuses have Constitutional rights. (Were you also talking about zygotes and embryos, btw?) 2. Interesting and erroneous assumption on your part. I very clearly said that they have no Constitutional rights, in answer to your erroneous statements about the Constitution. I gave a reasoned and thoughtful explanation. If you want to argue it, it would be up to you to disprove what I said. 3. Now, legally, whether a fetus has rights depends on its gestational level and other factors including the laws of the state. Now lets deal with your example to back up your side of the discussion. Other than being1. Born citizens who are persons. Fetuses are not persons thus not citizens. 2. Now, as to your question about the rights of women. They didn't have the right to own property, they did not have the right to their own person, as their husbands could legally beat them. That's two, I am sure there are many more. Now, I realize that these issue hadn't gone to the Supreme Court to see if they were Constitutional or not, and I am not a Constitutional scholar. However, we won't know. 3. Additionally, currently there are small movements to give citizenship to all stages of human existence, beginning with conception. So apparently even they understand that fetuses do not have Constitutional rights as you have erroneously claimed. BTW, I never used the words, nor said that the Constitution provided "All" rights to a fetus.Ah, the old parsing of words, desperately trying to find some loop hole so that you think you shouldn't have to man up and admit to error. Here is what you said: Paaka: Wraiths, of course, the constitution guarantees the rights of all And yes, I used the word 'all' something you will use as a life preserver. lol I was wrong to do that. However, since the fetus has no Constitutional rights at all, then I think you have something to acknowledge here too. Come on, it isn't so hard. I just set a good example for you. "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- Mahatma Gandhi "Theology focuses on our experience of being limited and finite and yet related to that which is limitless and infinite." Ann Belford Ulanov ***************** "Free will is the ability to do gladly that which you have to do." Carl Jung
Last Edited By: MorgaineA77
04/12/09 07:23:49.
Edited 1 times.
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Shaul El Sage |
Mmoryr | ||
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Posts: 4556 (04/12/09 08:52:20) All-Star Blogger |
Again I ask you, where is it written that life does not start at conception, that the conception has not produced life? To answer your question again, life
begins at conception.
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SuzieQ |
What Offends Me About This Issue | ||
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Posts: 4550 (04/12/09 08:53:48) 631-516 Politics Star Blogger |
Why are the gays forcing themselves on the Churches? If they want to do the Church thing, why don't they start their own Church? But, it is not about
that. They just want to make the Churches accept something they are against and that is wrong and puts lots of people off. It will not change the fact that
they are different from the rest of society and that is just the way it is. I am not condemning their lifestyle because I truly believe they do not have a
choice and this was decided before they were born. They are not satisfied with civil marriages but want to defy the teachings of the Churches. Put it to rest
because that is what makes most of the folks disgusted with their plight. Live and let live, enough......
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